Dear friends
Last week I participated in a project, in the form of game, in which we learned and really experienced about the philosophy of Damanhur. A project in which I learned lessons about operating as a group, about being well within a group, about the grow process of and within a group. And I also learned about my own transformation. The way the activities were designed were so clever that it was the best lesson in how to learn the basic priciples of building a community, the Damanhurian way. And also it was for me personally, a great mirror to know where I stand in my life and why I am here now. Part of this project is not to tell too much about it, so it stays an authentic thing for everybody who ever may decide to also step in these shoes. So that everybody can experience it in an authentic way.
I am really grateful to be here, and I feel as if I get a better understanding of how to become a master creator in life. This is not only as an individual, but more, I learn how to be an authentic being a group, in a community, and how to navigate and create your own game, your own life on earth. Just to play the game of life as a creator! Together with others!
In this process of learning about Damanhur, I also feel very connected to myself en therefor to you too. I am looking forward to hearing about your lifes and about what you are doing..so hope to hear and read from you again soon as well!
With you,
Karin
Last week I participated in a project, in the form of game, in which we learned and really experienced about the philosophy of Damanhur. A project in which I learned lessons about operating as a group, about being well within a group, about the grow process of and within a group. And I also learned about my own transformation. The way the activities were designed were so clever that it was the best lesson in how to learn the basic priciples of building a community, the Damanhurian way. And also it was for me personally, a great mirror to know where I stand in my life and why I am here now. Part of this project is not to tell too much about it, so it stays an authentic thing for everybody who ever may decide to also step in these shoes. So that everybody can experience it in an authentic way.
I am really grateful to be here, and I feel as if I get a better understanding of how to become a master creator in life. This is not only as an individual, but more, I learn how to be an authentic being a group, in a community, and how to navigate and create your own game, your own life on earth. Just to play the game of life as a creator! Together with others!
In this process of learning about Damanhur, I also feel very connected to myself en therefor to you too. I am looking forward to hearing about your lifes and about what you are doing..so hope to hear and read from you again soon as well!
With you,
Karin
Hi Karin,
ReplyDeleteThanks for another interesting blog about your experiences. However it is also slightly unfulfilling. The blame is on me – I’m just too curious. I just love good ethnography – which includes clear definitions of concepts and factual descriptions.
I’m not entirely convinced about the reason why some degree of secrecy is needed in order to guarantee an authentic experience for others. Instead, I would argue that sharing your experiences with others can make experiences more accessible and easier to reflect upon by yourself. My main reason for this is that a factual description of a situation can never replace the actual experience of a situation. Just like opening a book which outlines a set of philosophical principles is not enough to truly understand, embody and live such philosophical principles.
Let’s consider two examples to lllustrate my case. In my profession, as a debate trainer, I use a lot of knowledge which is extremely accessible or ‘open’ for people. The basic principles of rhetoric are more than 2400 years old and it just takes a quick search on Wikipedia to find – literally – all the things I have to tell about my subject. Still it would be perfectly fine if people would have read all books in the world before they enter a training session for the first time. Why? Because I know that there is a huge difference between knowing all these principles and mastering these principles.
A second more familiar example would be a younger sister asking her older sister: ‘How was your first kiss?’ The older sister would – probably, let’s assume it was a great first kiss – tell about her experience in great detail. And probably she would conclude by saying something like: ‘I can tell on and on about it, but there is no way how I can describe the feeling of that first kiss.’ Why? Once again because it’s obvious that telling about an experience can never replace the actual experience. If only because we are all unique individuals and experience are – by their very nature – subjective.
Now, this begs the question if and how it is possible to have authentic experiences in life more generally. Does reading a ‘Lonely planet travelling guide’ about China alter the experience of travelling in China? Is it, therefore, better not to read or know anything about China before you would have your first experience?
Another question that comes to mind is whether the principles of the Damanhurian philosophy are so unique that it becomes impossible to describe them in a language that would make them somehow familiar and more accessible for people who are curious – but who don’t really feel that a trial citizenship of three months is an option for the moment.
Don’t understand me wrong: I’m not saying that you should tell us more about your experiences. There may be very valid reasons for a bit more secrecy and mystique about your experiences – ranging from practical to personal reasons. There are things like privacy and intellectual property rights in this world – and we all know that these rights have very little to do with allowing others an authentic experience. That’s why I just want to point out that I don’t find the reason as to why non-Damanhurians shouldn’t be informed in great detail compelling or convincing. That’s all :) With love, Eric.
Hi Eric! Thanks for your passionate response! Nice that you are interested and curious. I can hardly argue with you about the reason for secrecy and you have a point regarding the validity of the argument. Maybe it's just more fun not to share details, because of the effect of surprise and so on... I guess this doesn't answer your curiosity, there is just to much to discover here to explain all in detail.
DeleteWell, thanks, that's a short answer! So the new reason is indeed another one, it's more fun not to share the details? This sounds better, this sounds more like a compelling argument against 'spoiler alerts' in book reviews or against telling a 4-year old child the truth regarding Sinterklaas.
ReplyDeleteI'm just asking because I would be way more worried if there would be social sanctions regarding sharing more details with the outside world. That would be a big cult indicator - as you would probably understand. As long as you keep your secrets just because it's more fun, and only because it's more fun, that's perfectly fine with me. However, this also seems a bit weird, if you think about it. Damanhur is, after all, a community with a philosophy that could serve humankind. I would - from a public relations perspective - always be keen to find ways to spread the message regarding these principles and this philosophy as soon as possible. Why wait if you can inspire people to change their ways here and now? From all new and interesting principles of community life, can you not just give us one? You will understand my desperate attempt to satisfy my curiousity. Life is a game, after all, and we shouldn't take it too seriously! ;)
With love, Eric
The basic principles of Damanhur about how to build a community are no secret at all. Only some details about how they challenge the civilians here, being surprised and change your habits are also amongst the goals of the game (reason 3 :). If you are interested in the philosophy of Damanhur there are public workshops and lectures on that and Q and A meetings, books, etc. To satisfy some curiosity I can share some basics that I recall: first take care of the economy, make sure you all invest and make clear arrangements about it, second everybody needs his own responsibility within the community, thirdly sharing what you feel. This in order to get to know eachother and the gear you are working with to reach a goal. Talking of which..the goal, the ideal: share an ideal! Translate each personal character or talent towards this goal. Develop personally in a way that contributes to the common ideal. And very important: action! Act, do, make, create! Stay ahead of the 'enemy' which is non-existence! :)
DeleteForgive me, Karin, I don't mean to be annoying with my questions and remarks at all. Since you wrote about principles the Damanhurian way I expected to find some principles a bit more thought provocative than these principles here. These principles sound nice! They make me think about the rhetoric in modern business I studied for a course in sociology. Big consultancy firms all have their core values and principles these days. These principles are nothing out of the ordinary. (In the context of business I found it always quite funny how language like this creates the impression of a non-competative environment and the absence of authority eventhough they do operate withing a capitalistic framework and all firms are run top-down nevertheless - life is full of paradoxes!)
ReplyDeleteSo I'm quite sure that the juice is in the application of these principles. How do you interpretate them, how do you apply them, how do you make judgement calls on them. That's the interesting stuff :)
One question though, what would you advice as credible sources of information regarding Damanhur and it's philosophy? The internet is so big these days and it's hard to find reliable information. I checked some official websites - and I read the constitution of the Federation of Damanhur - but I also read some unofficial onces. Such as: http://damanhurinsideout.wordpress.com. That one is quite disturbing. The people who contribute to that website apparently believe that there is a concept called 'the enemy' given the fact that their contributions are sometimes extremely negative towards the community of Damanhur.
But I'm quite sure that - if there is no such thing as the enemy - their errorous premise of an ememy - is sufficient rebuttal of this entire website. Isn't it? ;)
It's a wonderfull idea, when you think about it. Because it ends all discussion.
Wow Eric..you sure know how to be a pain in the ass. I don't know what it is you are aiming at. I tried to give you an answer, I thought you were interested in my experiences and I thought, since I consider you to be a friend, that you would at least give me the benefit of the doubt when it comes to making judgements of the situation in which I find myself. It is easy to be critical from the distance. Please use your energy for something more uplifting or constructive, at least that is what I am going to do. Bye bye
ReplyDeleteI shall tiptoe in here, very, very quietly....
ReplyDeletedoes Damanhur follow any of the literature of Emanuel Swedenborg? especially his material on 'correspondence'.
'correspondence', yes this very site is founded on this. But Swedenborg took 'correspondence' to another plain of understanding 250 years ago.
When I start my day off healthily, a walk and a freshly squeezed juice, the rest of the day follows suit. If I start it off with toxins, a can of coke & TV, the rest of the day follows suit too. 'Like attracts Like'.
The same is true of personalities, beliefs, emotions etc.
Everything shows us 'Outside', what's 'inside'.
Love:)
O_O
ReplyDeleteForgive me if I say that I only read the wikipedia-entry of Emanuel Swedenborg. That's probably more than most people know about Emanuel Swedenborg. Because most people don't read the work of philosophers of the 18th century. Given that, I would appreciate if you can give us a little more explanation on his level of understanding of correspondence. I'm quite sure you can.
Your parable sounds equally interesting - although I have no clue what the meaning and relevance of it is. I'm quite sure you can clarify that too.
One question though. Does it sound pretentious to say that Plato took 'dialogue' to another plain of understanding about 2400 years ago?
We could deflect this discussion into a meaningless abyss.
ReplyDeleteHowever please try to grasp this:
The higher mind conceives
The Physical brain receives
The physical mind perceives
If I were to fall into the trap of interpreting my perception via erroneous beliefs, if effect I would loose my all-power to change and create.
which one is correct for you:
seeing is believing
believing is seeing.
Moving on....I find its better to approach subjects which I fear to enter. subjects that I have interpreted as real.
Please if you wish, share about your relationship with your Mother.
How attentive and loving was the bond?
Do you feel you may have interpreted and created false belief structures around this?
How is such a belief structure affecting your current life with woman?
Remember this isn't about picking a topic, that can go on into infinity with concepts. This is about picking topics that bring hidden aspects to light. And thus feel more en-lighten.
Love
A meaningless abyss? I should try to grasp something...?
ReplyDeleteI hope your conversation manners don't reflect those of Emanuel Swedenborg. If so, I think I'll skipp the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. In my book, when you say something, you'll have to explain it to. If you're not willing to do that, it's sometimes better to say nothing.
Now, I grasped your point.
With regard to my believe structures about the relationship with my mother: I consider this question inappriate for two reasons. First, because you didn't answer my first question I don't feel the need to respond to new questions from your side. Second, we don't know each other very well. My name is Eric Stam, you're just for me a random stranger on the internet called 'OOO' so - no.
However, I have created believe structures around the relationship with my mother. I'm glad I did. Believe structures are fun! Believe structures are functional! It's great to have believe structures. With regard to my mother I have no reason to believe that any of my current believe structures are false. She's great. (I love you mum!)
Do they affect my current life with women? Probably. Freud said so, and Freud must be right.
I have to go now. And OOO, given the fact that we're both passionate readers about the art of conversation / dialogue I just wanted to share some nice conversation manners with you (from the internet):
----
(1) The Higher Level Card (i.e. Sorry, it's just over your head). You're just not smart enough to realize I am smarter than you, because you're on a lower (less divine) level.
(2) The Projection Card (i.e., I know you are, but what am I). By criticizing me, you are really just criticizing yourself, because any problem you see in me is just a projection of a problem in yourself.
(3) The Skillful Means Card (i.e., it was only a test, dickhead). The most potent card of all! It's not abuse; it's not pathetic or ridiculous or wrong; it's a crazy-wise teaching. You know, like Zen stuff. So when I call you a dickhead, it's not because I'm a dickhead, it's because you have a dickhead-complex that you need to evolve past, and I'm here to help you see that.
The underlying essence of the previously mentioned 3-cards, played often by cultic leaders and apologists of the eastern religious/western psychological milieu, is this: any negative response to the leader or inner circle of the group can only be ones own fault (i.e. blame the victim). You're either not smart enough to understand (at a lower level), lack sufficient self-awareness (are simply projecting), or have failed a very deep test (when the group/leader hurts you, this is actually helping you).
Thank you re: conversation manners
ReplyDeleteYou're probably right, when a person desires to be 'spoon-fed' information, which they themselves could easily research and come to their own revelations, such a tendency could easily impair their judgement and lead one down an avenue where they might find themselves compromised by a; Cult, father/mother principle of authority outside of themselves. be it a hidden belief or actual.
So its good that you have, out of necessity or not, armed yourself with some pre-preparation in knowing how to avoid such a pitfall.
I agree, that this blog offers the opportunity of self empowerment through reflection. However it may not be the reflection that I'd like, but surely this does not deny its usefulness, do you agree?
I may look at the mirror, and perhaps I will dislike the reflection. I may begin to interpret the reflective image, form notions, opinions and concepts around it, discuss it, put forward ideas on how to change it, how I can modify, alter, re-correct the reflection etc etc ad infinitum. This is what I mean by "deflect this discussion into a meaningless abyss".
I am trying to point to this 'loop', the 'loop' of self judgement, judgements i impose on myself.
When all I need to do, is 'smile' :))), and a miracle takes place, the reflective image ...the one that i have been 'perceiving' & attempting so vainly to alter, changes.
Smiles :)
I concur with the opening sentiments that manifested this thread, (at the top of this page).
ReplyDelete"Just to play the game of life as a creator! Together with others!"
The discovery that I had been interpreting my reflection, instead of creating the image I prefer. That i have the all-power, the birth-right to do this, is for me what this is all about.
Welcome home!
OOO
ReplyDeleteI do not make any judgements from the outside. Why would I and how could I? I can simply see characteristics in conversation manners that I don't like myself. That's all. Now, I'm sure we just had a bad start when you tiptoed in. Did I wrongly assume that your opening line about Emanuel Swedenborg was just a form of 'name dropping'? Generally speaking, I don't like name dropping. We all have our preferences. It's good to know each other preferences. How else can we live happily ever after?
Have a great day.
In my posts above I have been relating different angles of Swedenborg's: 'correspondence'.
ReplyDelete"Everything shows us 'Outside', what's 'inside'."
"interpreting my reflection, instead of creating the image I prefer"
"the 'loop' of self judgement"
"The higher mind conceives, The physical mind perceives"
However if another is not yet ready for this inner journey, then that's OK. It will come, eventually. :)
OOO
ReplyDeleteThat's my point. You're dropping the name of a philosopher mainly to demonstrate your sophisticated knowledge of this philosopher - not to actually educate your audience about this philosopher. If so, you would give references and/or explanation of your points. Instead, you seem to believe that some words of wisdom that - I must admit - could be a valuable contribution on the walls of my toilet are supposed to teach me something. That's why you have the guts to say that I might reach a certain level of understanding eventually. That implies a certain judgement, or evaluation, of my current level of understanding.
But let me be a good student. I could answer: "Oh, you were playing a little game with me, how delightfull! I totally get your point about Emanuel Swedenborg now. I'm fascinated by his work. Thanks for sharing! I'm going to read all his books and I'm going to contemplate on your clever lessons for a while."
I agree with you O_O.. I also think that some people just aren't ready to look inside. Until they start doing that they might keep kicking the outside world. However we all have our blind spots and everybody reflects parts in ourselves. Things in others that bother us are interesting. So what can we learn from this fire in this correspondence? For me I can share that it annoys me that there is an atmosphere of disharmony in some reply's. To me it seems a battle of ego's. I recognize my allergy for disharmony and I know this has to do with my own past. Resisting to disharmony creates disharmony in myself. So instead of being annoyed for a long time, I'll take this situation to my benefit and say: I dislike bashing and disharmony but I accept that it exists, even in my blog..!! I see also the divine in others and the lessons everybody is willing to learn. Thank you for reflecting my lesson in this! And now...please stop the bashing ;)
ReplyDeleteWas it really about the ego's and the ego's only? I don't even know who I was bashing. That's why I was surprised about someone asking me personal stuff about, for instance, the relationship with my mother.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if a negative response to such a question is a clear indication that someone just isn't ready to look inside. But I guess I'm not in a position to make judgement calls about that.